Is it a failure of the progressive mvt that Obama’s leading choices are center/establishment figures?

http://webb.senate.gov/

Yes

Will Obama continue his change campaign, or will he go for an establishment figure like Biden? He needs someone new, not someone currently in the establisment, esp not a senator. What about Retired Marine Corp Gen Zinni?

Considering how well Obama listened to us during FISA, I think it’s probably a pretty good indication of how much attention he will pay to the facebook group.

Not a failure of the progressive movement, more a failure of enough media outlets to make the progressive message known.

even so would Obama have listened to that message.

I think we know that facebook isn’t enough. How can progressives make their voices heard? If Obama wins that question will continue to be critical.

Yes he would have listened, I believe he is a great listener. Would he have acted more progressively than he has so far? Yes, I think he would have if the loudest voice coming from the media was the progressive voice.

The squeaky wheel always gets the grease.

How can progressives make their voices heard?

Not very well within the mainstream media, that’s a given. We have to continue to make and support our own media such as you are doing with GRITtv. Even if we can’t create a few major media outlets we can create hundreds and thousands of smaller ones. Eventually the viewer/listener/readership of the M$M will drop to the point advertisers will lose interest. But it’s unlikely we’ll change the media without first changing Congress to one that will give us some legislation to level the playing field.

Progressives get heard when we pick off corporatists in elections. They heard us when Donna Edwards defeated Al Wynn. Elections are what politicians understand.

I think our voices are being heard more than ever before. I can’t wait to see the results.

People,

I don’t know about you, but I don’t understand why Obama can’t see that the further he moves to the center (or should I say right) the worse he does in the polls! He needs to wake up, and soon. Say what you want about Hillary, but I guarantee her people would be all over this trend. I’m starting to get nervous…

I’m not saying I have buyers remorse or anything, but come on! We need to get with the program.

Our voices are being heard between us progressives, but not so much with the “low information” voters. I deal with a lot of people living hand to mouth. They don’t get a lot of news and what they do get is coming via the fascist corporate media. I tell them about alternatives such as GRITtv and also have to tell them not to believe their email inbox. When I tell the Obama really does cover his heart, really isn’t a Muslim, etc. I may not always convince them but I plant that seed of doubt and tell them where to find the truth. That’s the gritty way of getting the message out. These are not times to be complacent, in fact just the opposite which is what I hope to see coming out of the Obama camp starting yesterday.

How about Haiti?

In 2004, BushCo took down Jean-Bertrand Aristide, the most popular elected official in the Americas.

Is BHO OK with that? Or should the US apologize and make amends?

At this point in the game I try not to think so much in terms of left and right as I do in moving forward. I believe all progressives can agree on that point. So, while we’re in election mode we shouldn’t be overly concerned about what is coming out of the mouths of the candidates right now as we should be concerned about how much we can influence them once elected. Remember FDR was no big shakes when he was elected, the country pushed him into doing the right thing.

I think the skinny kid from Illinois can be persuaded similarly.

Not to downplay the terrible thing Bush did to the Haitian people, is now really the time to talk about apologizing for what Bush has done? What is Obama’s position on Haiti? I haven’t had a chance to Google it. Apologies are great, but in the absence of substantive policy, they are pretty hollow.

Were Obama to come out right now and apologize for Haiti he’d get hammered for playing President and then be called on to apologize for everything that’s happened in the last 8 years at home and abroad as a result of human and natural disasters.

I trust Obama’s judgment to do the right thing at the right time. (I’m also confident he won’t create messes such as what the U.S. did in Haiti)

Zini! What a great idea. The best Ive heard yet. Hope . . .

For once I agree with Michael Moore, who included in his list of 6 Ways to lose,

2. Pick a running mate who is a conservative white guy or a general or a Republican.
Yes, it will seem like smart politics at first. Shore up Obama’s lack of military experience with a hawk. Be true to Obama’s message that he’ll be a president for everybody by having him run with a Republican. Make a pitch to the purple states of Virginia and Indiana by putting one of their own on the ticket. Or make the red state of Ohio happy by handing the vice presidential slot to its governor. Just so long as Obama’s running mate screams “same old, same old,” making it harder for him to attract the new voters he needs to win.

See his point. I’d feel better with someone who has the respect of the military but is more grounded in furthering human rights than wars. To me putting a general on the ticket can be a dangerous thing. Instead get him a cabinet position or chief advisor type. Please clue me in if you think I’m totally wrong.

Also from Michael Moore:

“Caroline: Pull a Cheney!” An Open Letter to Caroline Kennedy

Yes, I read that. A provocative suggestion which would make for the best possible bumper sticker/yard sign this country has seen in quite some time if ever:

Obama/Kennedy

I shouldn’t have said “For once I agree with Michael Moore”, I usually agree with America’s favorite curmudgeon. [g]